Public reader discussion about The Prince by Niccolò Machiavelli.
By snow-story5
Tô começando agora a me interessar por política e queria estudar nem que fosse um pouco. Esse livro é bem antigo, então fico na dúvida se o que o Maquiavel escreveu na época ainda faz sentido hoje… por isso não sei se ele é uma boa forma de começar.
By RustyMaple1992
Machiavelli feels like he’s gotten a really unfair reputation to me. “Machiavellian” basically gets used as a stand-in for “political realist who does nasty stuff.” Like, Francis Underwood from *House of Cards* gets labeled that way a lot. Sure, I get why people connect them, but it also feels like it unfairly links Machiavelli with being bad in general. I’ve read *The Prince* and I’m partway through the *Discourses*, and neither one seems to me like it’s just flat-out saying “go do evil.” If anything, it seems more like he only talks about morally iffy moves in situations where it’s for something bigger—either “the greater good” or just keeping the state going. And the state surviving doesn’t automatically mean it’s morally good or morally bad. Another thing that bugs me is that most people seem to know him mainly from *The Prince*, which is kind of short compared to the *Discourses*. My understanding is it was also written with the Medici in mind, like trying to win favor, not for some bigger long-term project. I’m not trying to claim it’s a satire—I think it’s clearly meant seriously—but I still don’t think it’s the best snapshot of his politics. The *Discourses* (and I think even early parts of *The Prince*) make it seem like he cared a lot more about a republic of the people than an autocracy. Anyway, that’s what I’ve got for now. I feel like I’m probably missing something, or I just wrote this awkwardly and can’t see where to fix it right now.
By spring-copper1982
This was my second time picking up Machiavelli’s short book on politics. I really liked the historical bits and how straight-up he seems about politics. I’ll admit I kind of enjoy that cold, almost amoral way he writes, where he looks at political events without getting all moral about it. It feels like you can see what people or even a whole society is naturally like as it develops, without all that judgment getting in the way. Reading it also made me curious about how Machiavelli interprets behavior when it comes to power and politics. This second read I checked out three different editions, but I ended up liking Tim Parks’s version the most. It just feels easier to follow than the other translations, probably because the wording feels more modern. Overall, it’s definitely a book I’d revisit again, especially if you’re interested in his take on objectivity in politics and power.
By Mountain
I’ve been trying to read more lately, and I’m working through Crime and Punishment by Dostoevsky right now. So far I’m really enjoying it. I was also curious about The Prince—if anyone’s read it, is it worth it? And if you have any recommendations, I’m especially into books with psychology, philosophy, non-fiction, literary fiction, or crime.
By chapter-cricket10
I know everyone seems to love this book, so I’m not trying to start drama or anything. I just honestly don’t think it’s as great as people make it sound, and I want to figure out what I’m missing. I read it straight through, and I did have fun with it. The story is interesting and entertaining, but it didn’t feel really deep to me. To me it comes off like it’s just recycling a bunch of popular “life lessons” like how adults are selfish, how business people are mean, that love is everything, that beauty is subjective, “follow your heart,” that kind of thing. No disrespect, but it feels kinda surface-level. And then I see it called this huge classic for kids—does it actually connect with children? I haven’t really heard any kids talk about it, so I can’t help wondering if it’s more like what adults romanticize about childhood, or what parents hope their kids are like. The only part that actually struck me was the fox part, with the whole “taming” idea and how something becomes special through that. So yeah—what do people genuinely love about it besides that?
By window_verse
While he was in exile he basically just simmered and spent all his time trying to get back in their good graces. I can’t tell if he was doing it out of genuine remorse or just because he hated getting tossed out, but it really seemed to hit him hard and he took it personally.