Reader discussion: Anthem

Public reader discussion about Anthem in the WeRead Catalog by Ayn Rand.

Atlas Shrugged by Ayn Rand

By Lazy_Velvet39362

I had this book on my list forever, and I figured the audiobook would make it easy. Nope—I was way off. I also kind of expected at least some of her living through stuff like the Dust Bowl, WWI, WWII, and part of the Cold War to show up in a normal way, and it did, but it was so heavy that it kept pulling me out of the story. There were moments where her political opinions were basically the main event instead of the characters she was supposed to be writing, and it felt like she was using her own experiences rather than what her people were going through. Some of what she says feels so wild to me that I kept waiting for someone to just lose it and go full “how is this real?” just to prove the point. When she wasn’t trying to cram in political commentary, though, it was actually really good. The characters felt believable, the companies and government felt believable, and the story itself was engaging. I caught myself rooting for folks like Dagne Taggert and Hank Rearden, and I wanted things to go their way on their own terms. I’m glad I finished it once, but I don’t think I’d ever go back and listen/read it again.

I'm two chapters into Atlas Shrugged and am very confused... why are the characters so bad at business?

By red-horse

I’ve avoided *Atlas Shrugged* for years just because everyone talks about it like it’s this super divisive, political “love it or hate it” kind of book, and I didn’t want to deal with that. But I’m like two chapters in and I’m honestly lost, because it *feels* like Ayn Rand is clearly trying to hype capitalism, yet the pro-capitalist characters seem… really badly written? It comes off like someone who doesn’t actually understand how businesses work is trying to paint capitalism in a strawman way. I even thought maybe I grabbed the wrong book. Dagny Taggart is supposed to be the smart, capable business person, but her decision to push Rearden Metal makes her look like an absolute idiot. The whole conversation reads like she’s just repeating “it’s the best” with no real justification, no one wants it, experts are skeptical, and then somehow she’s acting like that’s enough to go all-in. It’s hard not to read it as “here’s a bad business case decision meeting” more than anything else. And the whole “nobody’s using it, experts don’t approve it, and one big figure decides to bet everything on it based on vibes and the seller’s info” thing feels way too similar to those real-world scam situations people talk about (like Theranos). So now I’m sitting here wondering if this book is actually a parody of capitalism, because if it’s not, it’s doing a terrible job of making the case. Also, by chapter two, the vibe around Hank Rearden’s family confused me even more. It seems like Rand is trying to make them look like narcissistic leeches, but then you get stuff like Hank missing an important dinner, his internal thoughts trashing his wife, and then it’s basically super contemptuous of her for wanting him to keep his anniversary promise. So like… how are you supposed to be on his side? And at this point, I’m not sure we’re absolutely *not* just reading a parody.

Looking for books to read that are similar to the book Anthem

By rhymechapter1973

I haven’t read *Anthem* since high school, and I just instantly got hooked all over again. I picked up a copy for Christmas and started reading it, and now I’m trying to find other books that feel similar.

What type of flowery writing style is this and any books that employ such style?

By EchoClock52

Hey all, I’ve been reading a bunch lately and there’s this one kind of writing that always grabs me way more than the super plain, kind of flat stuff. It’s really rich and colorful, with lots of figurative language that just pops. One example is The Whalestoe Letters by Mark Z. Danielweski, here’s a bit: “Some people reflect light, some deflect it, you by some miracle, seem to collect it...” It’s just gorgeous. Every letter from Pelfina in The Whalestoe Letters has this totally memorable feel to it — the way she twists words around and makes them feel alive with so much energy. I really love it. I can actually feel the emotion and passion in it, and it kind of rubs off on me while I’m reading. I don’t think it’s only in The Whalestoe Letters either, because I’ve noticed a similar vibe in Confessions of an Ugly Step Sister by Gregory McGuire. And I’m sure I’ve seen it in a few other books too, just not enough. This one still stands out as the most gripping for me. I’m just wondering if there’s a name for this kind of fast, passionate, vivid writing style? And if anyone knows other books like it? Thanks!

Did you guys go through an Ayn Rand phase?

By QuietTicket863

Like, when you were 14 or 15? I don’t really know what that means.

I believe Ayn Rand's Anthem is surprisingly accurate

By careful_bottle

It’s one of those short dystopia books where everything is run like “the collective” is the only thing that matters. Some parts almost feel goofy/over the top, but honestly… with how things are right now, I can’t say it feels totally unreal. One thing that stuck out: how nobody ever says “I” or “my” or anything like that. It’s always this super third-person, super “objective” voice, even online, like everyone is trying to sound like a school essay. And the “we” stuff too—“we need to do X,” “we should fix Y,” like… when did I agree to be in your group? Also the vibe that people only do things if it’s somehow “for everyone.” I’ve seen this in real life with developers especially—some people act like you’re not allowed to work on personal projects unless you can justify it as helping the community. Then they end up burnt out managing community stuff, while the person gets blamed for wanting anything fun or weird. And the attitude that if a solution isn’t for literally every single person, it’s automatically useless. Like if I’m telling you what helped me get rich or happy or whatever, suddenly it’s “but what about the guy with one leg,” and somehow that means my suggestion means nothing. People complain about suffering they’ve never even seen, from people they don’t know. And the whole “if you’re not an official thinker, you can’t possibly be right” thing is so bleak. Like if someone discovers something new or has an idea, then it’s “fraud” or “dangerous misinformation” just because they don’t have the right credentials. Even when it’s rejected by the consensus, it’s always because it messes with the plan, needs more rules, affects government stuff, etc. And if someone did it themselves, it’s only believable if their paper looks “official” with a bunch of names on it. The learning part also feels familiar—like if you progress faster than everyone else, somehow that’s a problem. I swear anyone who went to public school probably felt that pressure.

Reading Anthem by Ayn Rand in School, our activity was to have our own unspeakable word. This was the result.

By CocoaPorch

Upvoted for “The Thong Song”—I actually laughed at it.

[USA] Are all the editions of Ayn Rand's Anthem in the public domain?

By crescentkalendae

I saw a post about someone’s novel going into public domain, and it got me digging. I’m seeing that there were actually three different editions: - 1938 original (public domain in 1966) - 1946 revised one (minor changes, more modern wording/sentences) - 50th anniversary edition from 1995 (basically the 1946 text plus a personal letter from the publisher) But now I’m running into conflicting stuff—someone else says the anniversary version is really the 1938 edition with extra bits. I also looked at scanned copies, and 2 and 3 both have copyright notices on them. So I’m confused: if something is public domain, can you modify it and then copyright your version again? And specifically, is the 1946 edition actually public domain? The 50th anniversary edition lists copyright on the introduction and appendix. Does that mean only those sections are copyrighted and the rest of the book is still public domain?

Ayn Rand/The Fountainhead

By espressowonder2006

I had a couple teachers in high school who made us read Ayn Rand. First it was *Anthem*, and then in AP senior English, *The Fountainhead* was one of the summer reading books. I’m guessing nobody actually finished it all, though. We didn’t really get into her ideas much in class since it was all during summer, so the “analysis” part was mostly us on our own. And to top it off, our teacher had us submit essays for prizes to the Ayn Rand foundation. So it kind of threw me off later when I realized she has such a polarizing reputation. Like if you’ve got one of her novels on your shelf, people assume a bunch of stuff about you, but I honestly don’t know what those assumptions are supposed to be. I should probably look into her beliefs more, but I’m also just wondering—what do people’s immediate reactions tend to be when they hear about Rand, especially *The Fountainhead*?

Some thoughts on the American National Anthem from Kurt Vonnegut in 'Breakfast of Champions'

By rainy_apron8

Their national anthem was basically a joke—total balderdash—and it felt like everyone was supposed to swallow it anyway. The thing is, the universe has some crazy number of nations, but the one Dwayne Hoover and Kilgore Trout were stuck in was the only one with an anthem that was just nonsense mixed with question marks. And honestly, the undippable flag really was gorgeous. But the anthem and that empty motto didn’t really help when a bunch of citizens were getting ignored, cheated, and talked down to so much that they started wondering if they’d ended up in the wrong country—or even the wrong planet—like some big mistake had happened. Maybe it would’ve eased their minds if the anthem or motto had at least said something about fairness or brotherhood or hope, like it was actually welcoming them to the place.

I made an Anthem poster

By DistantLamp96

This is just a rough sketch for now, but I feel like it could turn into some really interesting pictures. The text isn’t actually Russian or anything—it's more like fake “cryptic” English so it looks foreign. My guess is it’s meant to look like Ayn Rand but translated into a “Russian” vibe. The image has those 3 Vitruvian men all connected at the hands to get across collectivism, or at least that’s what it seems like.

[Freshman English Honors] Help!!!! Essay on Anthem by Ayn Rand!!!

By ashforest3

Help!! I need to write an essay on Ayn Rand’s *Anthem*, and I’m seriously stuck. I’m a freshman in high school, and this is my first really big essay. I haven’t written one since middle school, and even then it wasn’t very good. Online school has been stressing me out too, and I still don’t feel used to it. The prompt is: “Prove Equality-72521 is an objectivist/individualist character using examples from *Anthem*.” The essay is also supposed to be a CERCER format. I’ve read the book twice, but I still don’t know how to answer the prompt or even how to word my claims. If anyone has tips for writing this kind of essay, or can help me figure out possible claims/evidence from the book, it would honestly mean a lot.

Did anyone else have to read Ayn Rand during high school?

By UnfetterWrites

I remember having to read Ayn Rand’s *Anthem* in high school like it was a required thing. Even back then I thought it was kind of odd since it didn’t really seem to match what we were covering in class, but I just assumed it was normal. Only way later, after chatting with coworkers and other people, did I realize almost nobody else had to read it. So I’m curious—did anyone else have this assigned, or was my school just randomly weird about it?

Ayn Rand's Anthem (?!?!) and Authenticity

By hardcoverStorm

I know Rand is kind of a “don’t bother” philosopher for a lot of people, and I’m not really bowled over by her ideas in general. I’d even say she’s way weaker than Heidegger. Still, I can’t deny that *Anthem* hit me hard when I was a teenager. I hadn’t read Nietzsche yet either, so it was one of my first real encounters with the idea of authenticity. What stood out most to me is how the main character basically has to relearn being a person. For most of the book he can’t really say “I”—he’s stuck with “we.” It’s like the language is built to erase individuality, taken so far that it almost feels like Orwell’s “newspeak,” but cranked up to the point where the word “I” is straight-up gone. The whole thing feels like “someone” slowly turning into “I.” Looking back, the book is also kind of funny, which I didn’t expect. The character names are ridiculous, and the whole thing is super over-the-top. And there’s this opening line with the whole “it’s a sin” vibe that’s just… a lot. Near the end, there’s that moment where he finally sees the word “I” and just breaks down and cries—like once he understands it, everything changes. Then it turns into this big, intense “I’ll live my own truth” kind of thing, with the whole mountaintop / sun / destiny energy. I don’t know, it’s dramatic, but it’s also the kind of dramatic that makes you actually pay attention. Also, I’ve always liked the paperback cover—golden sun, fitting title, all that. So yeah, even if I think Rand’s philosophy is pretty messed up in a bunch of ways, she really nails something about authenticity. The main character even has to face death as part of that whole self-awareness journey. Anyway, I’m mainly interested in getting a conversation going about authenticity—especially the more selfish/“egoistic” side of it—and also how you can learn from thinkers you don’t even fully respect. Like, maybe sometimes breaking out of the “systems” of bad philosophers is still useful depending on where you are in your life. What do you all think?

Is there a fourth person? If so, how can it be defined?

By Stone_Brown1977

Finnish actually has a real fourth person, not just some technical “we” kind of thing. It feels kind of like how we use “one” in English, like “one gets tired while running.” I’m not 100% sure if it works with the same kind of system as the other persons, but it definitely adds another viewpoint alongside them. And you can mix persons too. The first-person “inclusive” form is basically first + second, meaning the speaker and the other person together. You can extend that to other combinations—if I’m counting right, with the single persons and that fourth one, there are 24 possible combinations, minus the empty one, so 15. Then on top of that you can mark number, so yeah, there’s no shortage of “persons” in Finnish.

Are there any popular books you plan on never reading?

By Seal-Field9719

Honestly, I’ve been thinking about this lately—I've tried to get into the Lord of the Rings books a bunch of times, but I just can’t. I know a lot of people really love them and I’m sure it makes sense, but I can’t seem to get invested at all, even though I do enjoy reading fantasy. Has anyone else had that kind of reaction to some really popular books (old or newer) that you’ll probably never end up reading?

Has Anthem (Ayn Rand) influenced Orwell?

By Notices_Careful2

I’m currently reading *Anthem*, and it feels a lot like *1984* in some ways. Since it’s an older book, I’m wondering if Orwell picked up some of the ideas—like the whole ministries thing.

Explain why Ayn Rand's unspoken word is "Ego"? (Anthem)

By memory_string7

Big spoilers for the end of the novella, so if you’re still reading, don’t. I read *Anthem* for the first time a few years back and I kind of came up with my own guess about that “can’t be said” word before it was revealed. Since it was my first time through, I was just thinking based on the vibe of it, and I figured it would be “I” (like “I” / “I am”). That felt like it would click with the execution scene, too—like the guy could be thinking or saying “I did this,” or “I am,” and then getting locked up for basically going against the whole “we” thing as a self-description. But then at the end, the word turned out to be “Ego,” and honestly it threw me. Why would they stumble on something like that and then just yell it out as their big rebellion word? “Ego” doesn’t feel like it matches the contrast as cleanly as “I” vs “we,” especially since the whole novella seems to be about the narrator finally realizing himself as an individual by the end. It just didn’t feel like it flowed. So yeah—can someone explain where my thinking went off, and what Rand’s reasoning might’ve been for picking “ego” specifically?

We read Anthem by Ayn Rand in English class

By ScarfPlain2002

We read this book last year that felt like the “straw man” version of communism. The whole thing was basically that the government won’t let anyone innovate or have any freedom, and they even go so far as not letting people use the word “I.” After that, we spent a lot of time talking about how bad “collectivism” is. Then later in the year we also read that speech about beating the Soviets to the moon, and it was pretty much presented like the communists were evil and we were supposed to hate them. This was all 9th grade.

[deleted by user]

By draft_ribbon

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