WeBuzz
Reader discussion: The Jewels of Aptor
Public reader discussion about The Jewels of Aptor in the WeRead Catalog by Samuel R. Delany.
Babel-17, Samuel Delany (1966): What's up with the ghosts?
By midnightdelta
Okay, I’ve had Samuel Delany sitting on my to-do list for like two years, and I finally started. I did read *The Jewels of Aptor* and *The Ballad of Beta-2*, and now I’m about halfway through *Babel-17*.
But wow, there are already a bunch of strange things rattling around in my head, so I had to dump this thought somewhere before I try to get any actual work done today.
Can we talk about the ghosts though? Once the main setup is in place, the main character basically does this “find a crew” mission across the city (very *Magnificent Seven*-ish). I loved the three-way navigator setup where different groups only get sensory info through sight vs sound vs smell. That part felt really cool and specific. And then suddenly they need to hire some ghosts—like, “discorporated?”—and they go to the ghost district to get them, because apparently there are jobs on the ship you can’t trust to living humans.
At first I thought maybe “ghosts” meant like stored memories/thoughts you could retrieve from a computer. Like how modern sci-fi would probably handle it. But what I’m seeing so far doesn’t read like data—it feels more like actual wispy floaty whispery ghosts.
And now I’m comparing it to the ghost stuff in *Star Trek*, and I guess maybe this is just one of those “the era of space full of energy beings” things? Like people were totally used to that kind of presence back then.
So I’m curious: what do other people think about the ghosts in *Babel-17*? Are there other books from that late-60s timeframe (1966-ish) that go hard with space ghosts too? Did “space ghosts” just fade out of the modern sci-fi vibe, or is it still around somewhere?
Also, please no spoilers for the ending. I get that there’s some kind of language issue/virus thing going on, but I just want to focus on the ghosts for now. I’m trying to finish tonight or tomorrow, and I just need to talk about this part.
And honestly my fear is someone’s going to tell me there aren’t any ghosts at all, and I completely misread what was happening. I’m kind of bracing for that possibility though—I’ve had my coffee. Let’s see how it goes.
I recently finished Nova by Samuel R. Delany. Anyone want to talk about it?
By TabetTrail63
I’ve been into Samuel R. Delany for a long time. I read Dhalgren around the same period I was working through David Foster Wallace and Gabriel García Márquez, and I really liked the way the writing felt so alive—plus that whole postmodern setup. After that I went after a bunch of his stuff: Neveryon, Atlantis, the critical books (Longer Views/Shorter Views), Times Square Red, and more. He’s always struck me as super smart in a wide-ranging way, and like he actually gets history/economics/gender politics, all of it.
So I kinda avoided his early SF novels for ages, because I assumed they’d be too “straightforward” for my tastes. But I kept seeing Nova brought up as maybe his best, so I finally read it during quarantine. And… yeah. I wasn’t into it.
Delany’s sentence stuff can be tough to explain, but I’ll try: it’s poetic, and it’s technically fine, but he’ll use strange verbs or words that feel off, like they’re not used in the normal way. It’s one of the things I usually like about him. The problem for me was that in Nova he’s trying to cover a super distant future—like a thousand years out—where society and tech are completely different. The same unusual style starts to feel more like it gets in the way. I kept getting hung up on how he described stuff like the futuristic buildings, and even the whole planet-crust situation with those fissures.
I also didn’t click with the melodrama. It’s basically two big-name industry people and heirs from important families going head-to-head to control key resources, and all the fighting is done face-to-face, close enough to be a fistfight sort of vibe. It’s got that swashbuckly space-pirate energy, and I’m just not usually that interested in pirate stories.
That said, I didn’t hate everything. I thought the way it handles the fates of the main guy and his opponent was pretty compelling in a cheesy-good, pulpy way. I also liked parts of the world-building—especially that instrument concept where the performer can create sensory impressions, kind of like a jazz musician, and how it matters to the plot. And I found the shipmates’ camaraderie more interesting than I expected. Also it was kind of refreshing to read a Delany novel without the super intense, constant sex obsession you see in a lot of his other work—at least here it felt way more subdued.
Anyway, that’s where I landed. I’d genuinely like to hear what other people think, especially if you loved it (or if you read it differently than I did).
Just picked up a bunch of Samuel R Delany novels, not sure where to start!
By whispersButton
I’ve been reading sci-fi for like 30 years and somehow I’ve never actually gotten around to Delany. Today I grabbed a bunch of his novels for free: *The Fall of the Towers*, *Babel-17*, *Nova*, *Dhalgren*, *Triton*, and *The Ballad of Beta-2*.
Any recommendations for where to start? I know a bit about *Dhalgren* and *Babel-17*, but I’ve also heard he can be pretty tough. I don’t want to pick the wrong one and end up quitting on him before I even get going.
Whats the best intro book fot Samuel R. Delany?
By amber-fish
I’m trying to get through at least one SF Grandmaster book from each Damon Knight pick, and I guess Delany is next. I’ve been meaning to read one of his for a while, but I can’t figure out where to start. I keep seeing Dhalgren mentioned, but I’ve also heard it’s basically a total waste of paper—like it’s way too convoluted, pretty pornographic, and just goes nowhere. Does anyone have a recommendation? Or is Dhalgren actually as great as people make it sound?
The Jewels of Aptor, by Samuel R. Delany
By Duck
Okay Sondra, for this part just act like you’re worried you might’ve accidentally sharted or something. Travis, try to picture coming home after a rough day and then seeing your water heater totally flooded the basement…
Suggestions for post apocalyptic mutants.
By island_electric
I keep getting stuck thinking about post-apocalyptic mutants lately—like what kinds of weird creatures could show up if a ton of radiation went off on Earth. I remember playing a tabletop RPG when I was younger called Gamma World, where basically everything was messed up and mutated, and you’d go on quests for old “ancient” tech, kind of like Fallout but with way more radiation and genetic weirdness. Anyone got book recommendations that really lean into mutants?
For what it’s worth, these are the ones I’ve already read that hit parts of what I want:
- **The Einstein Intersection** (Samuel R. Delany): Lots of mutants, psychic stuff, and all kinds of strange beasts. Pretty close to the vibe I’m after, even if the mutants aren’t really human-origin.
- **The Jewels of Aptor** (Samuel R. Delany): Fun mutants and some pretty clear radiation, but I want even more of both.
- **This Immortal** (Roger Zelazny): Some cool mutant elements and interesting creatures, but I’d rather have mutants be the “normal” main group, like the everyday civilized race.
- **Orphans of the Sky** (Robert A. Heinlein): I liked the mutants a lot, but I’d rather it be set on Earth.
- **A Canticle for Leibowitz** (Walter M. Miller Jr.): This has a pretty similar post-nuke feel, but I wish there were more mutants running around.
If anyone has suggestions, I’m all ears.
What is your favorite queer sci-fi book or series?
By GoldSeal1992
I really love pretty much anything Ursula K. Le Guin or Octavia Butler have written, but I want to branch out a bit beyond them. I’m queer, and I’ve hit my limit on straight-only media for now, so I’m excited to find some books that actually have queer characters.
The Jewels of Aptor by Samuel R. Delany [OC]
By zenithValley
I’m not totally sure what edition this is, because the cover art changes a lot across the reprints. Like, I see a few different publishers and years (Ace, Sphere, Bantam, that Gollancz one), and the artists listed aren’t always credited either—there are at least a couple entries with “uncredited.”
Back in search of great Sci-Fi/Fantasy. I really like dark/gritty, or unique and interesting. I tend to not enjoy young adult style books.
By lone_cup1995
I’m not really against YA stuff or anything, but I’ve realized I mostly end up liking the darker, grittier books. I’ve loved the Red Rising series, Joe Abercrombie, Murderbot, Alien Clay, the Eisenhorn Warhammer books, and a bunch of other stuff too.
Anyway, I’m looking for recommendations—just had surgery on my ankle (ouch) so I’ll be stuck laid up for a couple months. If anyone has good suggestions, I’d really appreciate it.
Post apocalyptic science fantasy
By comet-hidden8
I’m trying to find a book/game with a post-apocalyptic sci-fi vibe but also actual magic and fantasy stuff. Like, stuff in the vein of the “Rifts” universe or that 80s cartoon “Thundarr the Barbarian.”
I’ve checked out Broken Earth by NK Jemisin and Dying Earth by Jack Vance, and they’re kind of close, but neither feels like it blends the sci-fi apocalypse and the magic/fantasy in about equal measure—at least not to me.
READ BOOK "Dhalgren by Samuel R. Delany" pdf thepiratebay djvu selling flibusta download shop get
By SceneCoin
I don’t know what to make of this, but it really got to me in a strange way.
Help me decide where to start with Delany!
By fern_hardcover75
I’ve been meaning to dive into Delany for a while. I really like sci-fi that’s kind of heavy and takes effort to get through, but feels worth it, with stories that don’t go in a straight line, super nice writing, and plots where nothing is quite what it first looks like. I also love books that leave you with a ton of questions to sit with afterward.
From what I’ve heard about Delany, he sounds like he’d match that taste. I’m a huge Gene Wolfe fan, and I’m hoping Delany will hit me with that same “wait… what did I just read?” mental overload. I know Dhalgren seems like the obvious place to start, but I’m curious if there are other Delany books that give off that same kind of vibe—like, “okay, I need to keep thinking about this,” and also “wow, that was weird/beautiful/powerful.” I’m not really worried about easing in; I’m happy to jump into the harder stuff, I just want to see what people recommend from his other work.
Also, side question: what other sci-fi writers tend to give you similar vibes to Wolfe or Delany?
Question on Samuel R. Delany
By TinyChapter
I just found out about Delany and people say his sci-fi is really good, so I looked him up. But then I saw that he wrote a book called “Hogg,” and it sounds super disgusting and disturbing. Does anything like that show up in his other sci-fi too? I’m trying to avoid anything really graphic.
Month of December Wrap-Up and Optional 2020 Year-In-Review!
By hidden-turtle
So what did you end up reading last month? I’d love to hear any thoughts you have, even if it’s just a few.
It’s totally okay to post about stuff you finished, stuff you’re still in the middle of, big long projects, whatever. If you’ve been slow with reading or super busy, it’s not a problem to talk about a book you haven’t finished yet.
Also, if you’re like me and can’t remember exactly where you left off, it might help to look back at last month’s thread.
And since it’s the first day of the year, feel free to do whatever kind of yearly recap you want—goals, what you hit or didn’t, favorites, patterns you noticed, anything you want to discuss about print SF this year, or what you’re hoping for next year.
If you’ve been around a while, you can even check where everyone was last year, but… yeah, 2020 was rough, so no guilt if your goals didn’t go as planned.
Underrated sci-fantasy novels and series
By grand_ticket987
What are some of your favorite sci-fantasy books/series (or even short stories) that you think don’t get talked about enough? Like, any time period—just stuff you feel is kind of underrated.
Month of August Wrap-Up!
By hiddenDeer60
What books did you get into last month, and anything you’re thinking about that you want to share?
You can mention finished stuff, things you started but haven’t finished yet, whatever long-term reads you’ve got going, or just all of it. If you’ve been slow with reading or super busy and haven’t had time, it’s totally cool to post about something you’re still working through even if it’s not done.
(Also if you’re anything like me and can’t remember exactly where you left off, there’s that link to the last thread.)
The Jewels of Aptor, Samuel R. Delaney
By StoryDoor90
Aptor’s really trying to keep his jewels all cleaned up and shaven, but I’m not sure Miss Skinny Arms over there is into it. Poor Aptor.