What’s the deal with cowboys?
By stone-coral57
I keep hearing this stereotype that Germans are really into Western stuff, like cowboys—does anyone know if there’s any real truth to it?
Reader discussion: Winnetou
Public reader discussion about Winnetou in the WeRead Catalog by Karl May.
God I need to rewatch winnetou movies. I saw them when I was kid and because of that movies I love western
By brushDuck64
This kind of gives me the same vibe as that Dutch series “Arendsoog.” It’s about a kid (like 19) who joins the police to go after criminals, and he uses his eyesight to spot who he’s looking for—especially in scenes where someone’s shot the lamps in a bar. He’s also super quick at drawing his gun, and he has this insanely fast horse that only listens to him (plus his Indian “White Feather”). White Feather is like his Indian friend and helps him out with a bunch of cases. There are a bit over 60 books, no curses that I can remember, and they’re all in Dutch. In book 20, the original writer’s son takes over because the father died and left a manuscript for book 20. If anyone’s interested, do you want me to share or read a chapter?
TIL one of the best selling books of all time in Germany is "Winnetou", about a fictional American Indian and his sidekick Old Shatterhand. Since being released in 1875, it has sold around 200M copies and has had multiple movies and TV shows made.
By CrescentWanders6
I think it’s mentioned in Inglourious Basterds, during that basement bar scene.
Old Shatterhand?
By Tide_Binary1973
Did the show ever cover this? I was reading Once Upon a Time in Hollywood and that character name came up, and now I’m not sure if I’m mixing things up. I think I remember Robert making fun of Old Shatterhand, but it’s kind of a foggy memory.
The shoe of Manitou - Or: A German synchronicity
By EpilogueMatrix
This is gonna be a little longer, just because I have to set it up first. I’m not sure how much people outside Germany even know about Winnetou as a fictional character. But Karl May wrote the books about Apache Winnetou and his white buddy Old Shatterhand, from around 1875 to 1910. They’re not exactly realistic (Karl May never even visited America), and a lot of it seems more like it reflects a European mindset than anything about Native Americans. Still, the Winnetou stories got super popular in Germany. And weirdly enough, they also helped make the crimes against Native people more widely known here, and the Indians were usually shown in a pretty positive way. Then in the 1960s they turned the stories into movies, and in Bad Segeberg there’s even had a Winnetou festival every year ever since. There was also a parody western in 2001 called “Der Schuh des Manitu” (“The Shoe of Manitou”), which was pretty successful in Germany and basically mocks all those 60s Winnetou movies. One scene that stuck with me: the Shoshone enemy tribe can’t find their hatchet, so instead of unburying it, they unbury a folding chair. And now, more recently, Ravensburger published kids’ books called “Der junge Häuptling Winnetou” as kind of spin-offs from the original Karl May stuff. But after complaints about political correctness from some people (woke?), the publisher pulled the books and took them back. That kicked off a pretty loud debate in German media and online again in late August. And then today there’s another thing that somehow just fits into the whole Winnetou discussion—at least that’s how it feels. In Rothenburg ob der Tauber, archaeologists reportedly dug up a 1,400-year-old folding chair. Honestly, I can’t even tell if it’s just coincidence or something.
TIL The best-selling German novels of all time involve a native American fighting together with a German cowboy in the Wild West. This created a subculture of tens of thousands of Germans that, to this day, call each other by names such as "White Wolf", dress in animal fur, and live in teepees.
By key_page1998
My great-grandpa was such a superfan of those books that when they first came out he named all seven kids after Jesse James—though my grandpa somehow ended up with “Resse.” Then he loaded up the whole family and tried to move to California so he could catch the 1849 Gold Rush. Except it was already way over, like 50+ years, but apparently to him (he was German) “50 years ago” was basically yesterday. Also he definitely didn’t bring enough money—he kept saying something like, “How expensive can it be, and how long can it take to cross one country?” So yeah, I’ve got the crazy gene. That’s also why my family ended up in St. Louis—right when the money ran out. And every few people I meet who are St. Louisans with German roots tell me they’ve got some version of the same kind of story.
TIL there are 40,000 Native American Live Action Roleplayers in Germany. It is believed that this became popular through German novelist Karl May's stories of the Apache Winnetou and his German blood-brother, Old Shatterhand in the Wild West.
By listens_song1983
Kinda interesting, but the one time May came to America, he didn’t go out west at all—he only checked out the east coast.
Regarding Karl May
By green-coin38243
I’ve been going back through some older episodes and the one about Karl May really hit me. I’m German, and comparing Harry Potter to the Winnetou saga feels like a huge understatement when you look at how much they’ve shaped popular culture here. Those books and movies are still everywhere—still getting aired regularly, Karl May is still basically an icon—and just recently there was a big fuss because someone put out a kids’ book based on Winnetou. It’s also hard to imagine how everybody had the stuff back in the 60s; he’s been part of our background for over 100 years. And that parody movie from the 60s era is still kind of its own thing too—people quote it all the time even now. So yeah, it doesn’t really surprise me he’s not well known in the US, but I’m a little shocked I never really considered that he might not even be familiar to most people there, like we have him running in the background without thinking about it.
TIL about the German author Karl May. May wrote adventure novels set in the American West that featured German and Native American protagonists. May's novels became popular with German readers and Adolf Hitler reportedly recommended the novels to his generals.
By yellow_badger
I’m Native Canadian, and the first time I heard about Karl May was from a Polish friend. He’d call me “Winnetou” and just laugh about it. He grew up in Poland near the German border and went through WWII as a teenager—he fought in the war and then came to Canada afterward. When he was a kid, he said he read Karl May like a lot of other kids back then. Later on, though, he ran into the part where May hadn’t actually been to North America before writing all that stuff about Native people. So, to him, the books were basically everything he’d read and all the ideas he’d made up about how Native folks supposedly lived and acted. I’m Ojibway/Cree, and I do speak my language, so I find it kind of funny how words like Manitu/manitou show up in his writing (and even here). From what I understand, that word is Algonquin—so that language family includes Cree and Ojibway—and it’s basically about “spirit” in general, or sometimes “god.” And “kitchi” is like a descriptor/verb for “big” or “great.” Put together, kitchi-manitou is basically “great spirit” (what a lot of Native speakers use) or “god” (which seems more what non-Natives go with). Anyway, I honestly get a kick out of telling older German folks on my travels that I’m “Winnetou.” They usually catch the connection right away, and it’s just fun to point it out.
In the USA it’s common for Americans to romanticize the medieval period in European history. Mostly cause well we don’t have that history and it’s Exciting. Is there a period in USA that Europeans tend to romanticize?
By poppy
I’m mostly talking about the Wild West era, since I’ve noticed a bunch of Europeans (especially YouTubers and Twitch streamers) talk about the American Wild West kind of the same way we treat the Middle Ages. Like, figures such as Billy the Kid and Annie Oakley get mentioned almost like legends—same vibe as Ragnar, Leif Erikson, Barbarossa, Richard the Lionheart, you know what I mean.
Hitler, Einstein, and Albert Schweitzer played cowboys and Indians inspired by the books of Karl May. Are his works still popular, and/or have you read him?
By plain_window7900
Karl May is honestly a fucking legend. When I was a kid, I was obsessed with his books and the movies and had a blast with them. But I don’t really know if younger folks care that much now. Western stuff feels like it’s mostly for parents or older people, and until Westworld came along, it didn’t seem all that popular. Edit: okay, yeah, Westworld might not be the best example—I mean it’s not really “western” in the classic sense…
[REQUEST] Karl May Movie Collection
By fish_pages
I’ve been really hoping someone could put together a whole set of matching, uniform movie posters for the old Karl May films from the 1960s (if you grew up in Germany, you already know what I mean). I’ve found a few decent posters for the Winnetou ones, but it feels like those are mostly just the DVD cover type. Would be awesome to have something that looks good and consistent for all of them, plus a proper collection. Here’s the movie list I found: https://www.imdb.com/list/ls022786251/ — but “Das Vermächtnis des Inka” is missing for some reason (you can see it in the picture above). Since these are German movies, German title posters would be great too. Thanks!
Why is it that Karl May is unknown in English if he's the most successful German language author?
By ClaireReads1981
It feels weird that so many German authors are super famous in English—Kafka, Nietzsche, Hegel, Marx, all that—yet Karl May basically never gets mentioned. I only really see him in English when someone says Hitler made his generals read cowboy and “red indian” stories. Most of the time his name just isn’t there. The only near-miss I can think of is Shatterhand showing up in 007, but even then it’s not obvious if Ian Fleming picked it on purpose and based it on a German literary guy. So why isn’t May known in English at all, even though he’s popular and influential in Germany? He’s the kind of reason you get kids sent to “Red Indian” camps, and why red Indian visitors are treated so well over there. And the usual thought is: did Hitler just like his books? Like, sure, a lot of people in Germany do (and even Einstein—who was a Jewish socialist—was into him), but it’s not like that would fully explain the total lack of attention in English. He also died way before WWII even started, so that part can’t be the whole thing. Still, he’s supposed to have sold around 200 million copies.
Karl May Festival?
By paperbackcougar1984
Hey, I’m a native and I only came across Karl May and his books a couple years ago. More recently I heard there’s a Karl May Festival with Winnetou and some live performances, but I don’t really know much yet. I tried looking it up and there’s barely any info online besides German. Also, does anyone know when the festival actually takes place, and when the best time is to visit the museum?
TIL that an East Germany film studio made several successful "Westerns". The heroes were not cowboys but Native Americans.
By DraftTrail
There’s this Soviet western thing, apparently it’s also called an Eastern one (maybe because of the vibe?), titled “The White Sun of the Desert.” It’s pretty loaded with classic western tropes that anyone into the genre will spot. I’d definitely recommend it.
What’s the deal with Germans and native Americans?
By AmberBasketBison
I’m Native, and it feels like I hear people speaking to me in my native language more often from Germans than Americans. And honestly, their knowledge of real American history is really impressive.
TW: the reason and history behind Germans celebrating Indian (native American) festival ?
By envelope_tide
Hi everyone. Does anyone else remember in kindergarten/elementary school having some kind of festival where kids dress up as Native Americans—like with tents and everything? I feel really uncomfortable about it, and it strikes me as kind of racist. I honestly don’t get why Germany would do something like that in the first place. Where did it even come from, and why are they still doing it? And if the goal is education, wouldn’t it make more sense to actually talk about what the settlers/colonizers did to Native Americans instead?
Winnetou and Old Shatterhand
By DustyValley
I keep running into the idea that a lot of Germans are really into the American West, and I’m guessing Karl May’s Winnetou / Old Shatterhand books have a lot to do with that. Has anyone actually tried reading them to help with their German? They feel like they might be aimed at younger readers sometimes, so maybe the language is easier. Also, are they public domain now? Since most of them were written in the 1880s and 1890s, I’m not totally sure where that leaves them.
What do you think about the Winnetou book series, if you’ve read it?
By EclipseGold827
I wasn’t sure what category to use, so I picked Culture. I’m guessing the whole literature thing is part of culture anyway, so it felt like the closest fit. I haven’t actually read it yet, but I’m planning to go through it in both English and German. My memory’s not great, so I honestly don’t mind getting spoiled. I don’t really read that much these days, so I’m kinda excited.
Are native Americans a cultural fascination in Germany?
By TinyChapter
I’ve heard that Native/Indigenous American people have been a big topic of cultural interest in Germany for a long time. It feels like you can see it everywhere, like from Karl May’s novels to stuff like Atreyu in Michael Ende’s The Neverending Story. I’m just not sure why that is though—does anyone know what’s behind it?